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Poster: Jim F Date: Mar 3, 2005 2:28pm
Forum: etree Subject: Live Dead run Missing

2/27, 2/28, 3/1, 3/2/69
RIP
Phooey

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Poster: jeffyjo Date: Mar 5, 2005 12:05pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I think this is a very simple discussion to clarify.

Is LAMA's removal of these shows an internal decision, or a request from the Dead's IP people?

If it's LAMA's decision, made on its own merits, please detail a list of what shows are/will be affected by this new decision, and why.

If it's a Dead IP decision, please request that the Dead circulate the revised copy of their music trading policy to all music traders as soon as possible, to avoid further confusion.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: Mar 7, 2005 10:49am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Is LAMA's removal of these shows an internal decision, or a request from the Dead's IP people?

At this time we cannot offer an official answer to this question. I deeply apologize for the confusion, lack of clarity, and frustration this issue has caused all of you. As soon as we are able to offer additional information, it will be posted to this forum.

Thank you for your continued understanding and patience.

-Brad

Edit: Please see Brewster's comments here:

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=30199


This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2005-03-07 18:49:59

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Poster: barrywhiterules Date: Mar 7, 2005 5:03am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

It's gotta be the Dead, then.
The people who run this site are open, considerate, patient and communicative. If this was their decision, they would be out front in explaining it.

I think people are making a fuss over relatively little.
Dead live shows will always circulate.
We will probably always have a choice between the high-quality show being sold by the Dead, and a lesser-quality but free version on the trading market.
We may not always have a nice central registry like the Archive to find our Dead ... but it will always be out there, somewhere.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Mar 7, 2005 10:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

On this note, any longtime Deadhead (like me) should not be surprised if the Dead were to avoid making any more "official" public pronouncements on something than they absolutely had to. That's practically like standard operating procedure for them, including while Jerry was alive. Right?

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-07 18:17:44

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Poster: jbyrd Date: Mar 7, 2005 10:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

To sum up taping/trading in JERRY'S WORDS (there is no Dead without Jerry, sorry Bobby) taken from "Garcia: An American Life" p.277:
"I think it's okay...If people like it they can certainly keep doing it. I don't have any desire to control people as to what they're doing and what they have. There's something to be said for being able to record an experience you've liked, or being able to obtain a recording of it. Actually, we have all that stuff in our own collection of tapes. My responsibility to the notes is over after I've played them. At that point I don't care where they go (laughing). They've left home, you know."

The current marketing ploy by Dead Enterprises is totally against the spirit in which the music was created. Yes, I understand that money is part of the game and we all gotta eat, but looking to make such shameless profit off Dead Culture is ridiculous. $20-$25 per download and you provide the cases, cds, print the artwork, time involved, etc. If they can't go the extra route and just make these shows DPs or Vault releases then we should be able to download them free, period. I have over half the DPs, all but 1 Vault release and all the DVDs. I also have a pretty fair "non-commercial" collection too. I agree with others who state that there's been a natural balance all these years in our collections. I have supported these guys through the years with my money, having the faith that they'll allow me to enjoy what free shows I could. The notion of grabbing shows out of thin air to stick them on fuckin' iTunes is a corporate power-grab. And notice that the performances that are gone are some dank-ass shows. Shame on the remaining members to disgrace the Dead name in this way, they're supposed to be the antithesis of pop culture and all it's profit-driven marketing tactics. Look at what you pay for DP 33 for example:
-FLAC download (only kind worth having): $23.50
-Packaged Dick's Pick in HDCD (much better): $25
Looks like they make about the same money for providing a whole lot less product on their end.
No way in hell I'm paying the same for a FLAC file that they just stick on a server (and I manufacture myself) as I do for a proper CD release. I'm with Dr. Flashback on this one, if they start just picking shows and declaring them untradeable because they're on iTunes (without a corresponding CD release), then screw 'em, trade anyway. Who would've thought the Long, Strange Trip ends up in a fat-cat's wallet. I'm sure Jerry is quite disappointed.

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Poster: paint-picker Date: Mar 7, 2005 11:59pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I like many people am disappointed that the Dead have decided to start pulling concerts and I would point out that last year there was an interview with one of the Dead archivists where it was said that they were looking at putting the whole of the Vault on line. I cannot at the moment find where I saw this but I believe it may have been one of the Flash e-mails sent out by the Dead so it looks as though those concerts that exist in the Vault in high enough quality to be released will disappear from the LMA. I can accept that yes they need money to live the same as we all do, but what I can't accept is the kind of prices the are charging for downloads. If you look at the official download sites for String Cheese, Phish, STS9 etc they only charge $9.95 MP3 and $12.95 for lossless downloads. This is why so many people are going to feel it is a rip off. I realise that the administrators at LMA are in a no win situation and I think it very unfair some of the comments that have been made but personally I cannot express enough thanks and admiration to all the Archive site staff for what they do, where do you all find the time!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Mar 7, 2005 10:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

For this forum now, let's bear in mind Brewster's guidance in his recent post, http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=30199
perhaps especially the "we would appreciate toning down comments" part. Thanks!


This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-07 18:22:49

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Poster: dr. flashback Date: Mar 5, 2005 1:33pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Thank you Jeffyjo, and well said. Your questions are fair, logical and to the point. Do you think anyone will be kind enough to answer your fair questions? Don't hold your breath. I'm still waiting for someone to explain why the 2 Paris 1972 shows are gone. They're not released YET. So why not wait and remove them when they are? There are other GD shows on LAMA which contain certain songs that have been released (not gonna say which ones, I'm not that crazy!) and they haven't been taken down. This is an inconsistent policy, it's confusing and not fair.
And while we're removing shows - what about ANTHEM OF THE SUN, which contains portions of over a dozen different shows from 1968. Better take down the whole Spring 1968 run, just to be safe, huh?
That makes about as much sense.
Back in the 60's, there was something called The Establishment. The free, non-consuming counter culture of the Haight Ashbury was too much of a threat, so they quickly figured out ways to co-opt the hippie culture and sell it back to us as expensive designer jeans, etc.
What Dead Inc. is doing is no different, only slicker. The band WAS divided on this issue a few years ago (releasing the Archive stuff) and if I remember correctly it was Phil who was against bringing in corporate outsiders to market these old shows. Looks like he lost.
Let me be very clear to all who would criticize my opinion - I have no problem with paying for Dick's Picks. I have a whole stack of them. I have also bought every single Dead album on CD, some of them twice now, and I also bought the Winterland 1978 DVD, okay? There has been an unspoken agreement between the Grateful Dead and the fans for many years now - clean up and release a few old shows now and then, we'll buy them, and let us AUD tape or download the rest as bootlegs. It's been a fair deal that we've all been happy with. Until now.
I know Establishment when I smell it, and this stinks. I hope I'm wrong, but I believe their long term goal is to re-claim as much of the Vault boots as they can - and charge us for them. Some CEO accountant has figured out how much money they're losing per day on these free downloads, and that's the name of that tune.
To all (I hope not many, and you're probably under 40 years old) who would defend Dead Inc.'s right to make more money and who are all thrilled at paying to download these former FREE shows, let me say I believe you have your values upside down.
The people who we (and the Grateful Dead) should be thankful to and who really deserve our respect are the numerous tech-heads out there on the net, such as Charlie Miller, the Music Never Stopped project and many, many others - who have for no financial compensation and purely for the LOVE AND SPIRIT OF THE MUSIC - collected and painstakingly cleaned up these Dead shows for us all to enjoy. THEY are the real heroes here, and if wasn't for them, most of these old 60's and 70's shows wouldn't exist at all.
Is it about materialism and commercialism, or is it about the art and spirit of the music? I know which side I'm on. And if you'll take the time to read Garcia's biography - you'll see how Jerry felt about trading free shows. I think that about sums it up.
One last thought, everybody go out and support live bands in your hometown, and if you hear a new INDI band here on LAMA that you like, try and buy their CD. They DO need your money, not these multi-millionaires at Dead Inc.
Dr. Flashback

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Poster: Jim F Date: Mar 5, 2005 3:16pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Just a thought, but these shows are only being removed from the LMA, aren't they? You can still go to TOL and other etree sites and get the same stuff...

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Poster: jeffyjo Date: Mar 6, 2005 6:56am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I think their being removed from LMA and not TOL, etc. IS, in essence, the confusion, Jim. It is the difference between an internal decision at one site and a new/revised music trading policy from Grateful Dead Productions.

While I don't agree with the logic and wording of some of the previous posts made on this thread, the simple fact is that people just want to know what's going on so they can fly right and continue to appropriately respect the Dead's copyrights.

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Poster: safetyman Date: Mar 8, 2005 11:05pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

What is TOL?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Mar 8, 2005 11:32pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

tol.etree.org is a gentleman's private ftp server to which a number of seeders have sent filesets over the years, and from which (I gather) a lot of the LMA GD collection was imported.

BTW since it is not a general public site (like archive.org or gdlive.com are), folks please do not share its login info here or in other general public forums. Leave it up to the owner to do so. That's good form to follow for any etree.org ftp site or indeed any personal ftp site. Thanks!

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-09 07:32:28

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Poster: drjoek Date: Mar 9, 2005 1:35pm
Forum: etree Subject: Sickest Dark Star?

How about a discussion of peoples opinion of what is the sickest Dark Star. I cant get enough of this quintisential Dead tune in all its permutations Lately Ive been replaying Cleveland 12/73

Discuss

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Mar 5, 2005 8:45pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I'm still waiting for someone to explain

You've posted a few times about your impatience a few hours apart, on a Saturday?

Even on regular workdays, I imagine things will proceed at their own pace.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMatt Vernon Date: Mar 6, 2005 10:25am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I think I can explain. I asked that the 2 Paris 72 shows be removed. In my opinion these were lackluster nights of an otherwise incredible streak of musical genius never to be repeated in my lifetime.

Just kidding.

The LMA does remove complete shows that are commercial releases ala Dick's Picks and Vault Releases. The removal just makes them not available for download. Everything is still scattered about on hard drives mirrored on two continents.

There is one part time LMA curator and a few crazies like myself that try to maintain some semblance of organization amidst the chaos of crashing servers, bad links, corrupt zip files and the oh-so annoying misspelled song title. At this time we can only flag the complete shows for removal even if some songs were omitted from the commercial release.

Everyone can form their own hypothesis about what goes on. Who talks to who.

I always thought that there was a plan articulated way back by gdp to plow through the Europe 72 run since these were all multi-track tapes and the music is without parr. If these missing shows do portend another Europe 72 release that should be good news I would think.

Would people be complaining so vehemently if it were 95 shows that were unavailable for download?

At the end of the day, we should count our blessings that this music existed while we were alive to hear it and almost all of it is available here.

Could it disappear tomorrow from the LMA? Yes. Would the sun still rise each day? Yes.
The only natural phenomena that would cause this music to disappear altogether is a planetary wide disruption. There are so many copies of so many shows distributed to so many people that there is no way it will ever be lost. You just might have to spend a few minutes emailing someone to get it instead of the instantaneous gratification we now take from granted.

Finally, the LMA is non-profit and runs on the generousity of people's time and money. Its an experiment in progress. They can use your support.

Before you type messages demanding to know what happens, think about it.

If there IS something that is going on and YOU don't know about it, then that is part of the PLAN.

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Poster: jeffyjo Date: Mar 6, 2005 1:00pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Thank you, Matt, for reinforcing the importance of the music. I and everyone appreciate the work you all do.

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Poster: drjoek Date: Mar 7, 2005 3:08am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

My wife was Wrong!!!
I discovered LMA last September and treated it like the freebies at a convention. I went back over and over and kept filling my pockets(ie Hard drive with shows and shows) I started at the two shows I had been lucky enough to attend in my younger days. 10/31/80 Radio City then purchased Dicks Picks 18 Englishtown NJ. Who knew at the time that I had attended 2 of the top 100 Dead shows on tape. Lucky me I guess. As I drifted through life as a responsible adult for 20 odd years before "getting back on the bus again"(Midlife Crisis? Maybe) albiet from a reponsible distance of listening to releases etc. A couple of years ago I began trying to track down tapes, disks on Napster etc and then happened upon LMA since then I have become a full fledged "HEADcase". I started downloading all the available top shows. Then year to year top shows 66-95, then less than top shows but stuff that seemed intriguing. Then it was downloading Runs at a time.I have even gotten to the point of downloading shows that others seem to think are good shows. Places and times that were new to me.Heck I even streamed two shows because people said they were the worst ever. (Alright I admit I actually downloaded them too Campolindo & Boreal for those that wonder)I, like others have downloaded more than I could ever listen to but knowing that someday I will listen to a new show ( One that sits still zipped in it little file waiting for me to unwrap). I see some of my favorites are starting to be removed from the Archive(2/27-3/269) and I see that I was not a fool as my wife suggests to download 100 Gigs of shows. For once I did not miss the curve I am ahead of the wave. I fear that the trend is toward less access and I feel covetous of the shows I do have and the ones that I may have missed out on, that I am too late to download. I better get busy again. No more dawdling.We should be thankful that we have had this access at all. I am not one who traded and traded for years but I do know that I am happy for what I do have. It is somewhat like a beautuful sunset, here then gone. Isnt that what would be expected of this Archive? Some of us will have gorged on it, others will come in and see a couple of shows and think "Cool" lets get that. I looked at it as a finite comodity. There were only so many shows, I would have gotten all of them then what? Ive got a stack of CD's to burn and listen as much as they will last. It will go away and be gone forever. I guess how I feel is that reality was not- all these free shows in pristine digital format easy to download and burn- and it is not the other extreme where everything is gone. It is somewhere in between. They will take some away and make them into DPs or Vaults.This is not punative. They don't take them away and say you cant listen to the really good shows or the highlights ever again. They are just trying to make a little off it, which sucks, but thats life. If the great shows were being removed and sequestered for ever that would be a shame. They don,t release 36 DP a year, one or two maybe right? So we pony up a bit for what we can afford or we listen to what is available and save for the corporate stuff when we can. I am glad I got some of the stuff that is gone but Im mad that some stuff was gone before I discovered it. Someone will come in behind me in line at the Bus Stop and get on. Hopefully they get on with us and enjoy the ride as it is today.

"This is all a dream we dreamed one afternoon long ago"

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Poster: jeffyjo Date: Mar 4, 2005 8:47am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Only the DP versions are forbidden from trading. Previously circulating non-DP lineages, as well as audience recordings, are still tradeable.

Unless the Dead has changed their policy and not told anyone.

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Poster: GMW Date: Mar 4, 2005 9:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Also missing, New Haven - 4.23.83. Have been looking for a good copy forever. Search continues....

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Poster: WeWantPhil Date: Mar 8, 2005 10:14pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

My only issue with the shows being pulled is that complete shows are being pulled when only a portion of those shows have been or likely will be released commercially. e.g the 3/90 Knick shows. What possible objection could the artist or the archive have with continuing to make available for free those parts of shows that are not earmarked for commercial distribution?

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Poster: Wharfrat73 Date: Mar 5, 2005 6:23am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I understand that this run is going to be officially released as a box set.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Mar 5, 2005 7:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

That's good news Gary, thanks! :)

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Poster: Wharfrat73 Date: Mar 5, 2005 7:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Holy crap!! Just that quick I found out that it was an ugly rumor. I guess we'll know for sure on 03/05/2005, when the rumored announcement was supposed to take place. I'm pretty sure it was bogus info. Sorry

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Mar 5, 2005 8:15am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Dang, here I was thinking you had a special little bird at your ear or something. :) Oh well.

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Poster: Wharfrat73 Date: Mar 5, 2005 1:27pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I saw this: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=49274 before this: http://deadnetcentral.com/WebX?13@250.D7j5aDmBB7i.18@.3b9e3365/1690 Oh well, maybe someday.

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Poster: dead trail Date: Mar 3, 2005 9:21pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Also missing are Europe 72 shows (Paris, Tivoli). Too much of a coincidence not to be related to the I-tunes releases. Anyone have insight? Whatever you think you need, you better grab it fast!

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Poster: dead trail Date: Mar 3, 2005 9:38pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Dates for Paris and Tivoli now missing are 4/15/72, 5/3/72 and
5/4/72

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Poster: dead trail Date: Mar 3, 2005 9:41pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

add 4/14/72

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Poster: George Minton Date: Mar 3, 2005 9:48pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

also 5.10.72

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Poster: paint-picker Date: Mar 4, 2005 1:09am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

08.27.72 has gone as well! Perhaps we really are going to get sunshine daydream now.Now off to get what shows I havn't downloaded yet. Panic stations!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Mar 4, 2005 1:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I don't understand- if you think some things might be winking out here in advance of availability from the Grateful Dead themselves, why panic?

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Poster: Ole Uncle John Date: Mar 4, 2005 7:11pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Cause of Panic= Some of us can't afford to buy 2700+ shows at $20 a pop but will try our best to download them for free :)

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Mar 5, 2005 12:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Hm, if such an attitude is widespread, then perhaps I can understand if the Dead were to want to place limits on the availabilty of some things.

For instance, many "regular" LMA bands ask for the accomodation to have dates placed off limits if they match- or are even being considered for- commercial release. Some even place all SBDs offlimits. We do that willingly for them in the regular collection. There's even a FAQ about it:
http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#131

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-05 08:04:27

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Poster: Ole Uncle John Date: Mar 5, 2005 12:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I’m not sure what “attitude” I’m conveying by admitting I don’t have the $56,000 to spend on shows (2700X$20). I think most of us buy Dick’s Picks and the Vault releases, mostly because their quality is hard to beat, but my point is simply I hope we don’t have to go the pay route on EVERY show. Cheers.

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Poster: damhippy Date: Mar 7, 2005 7:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I do think its a shame that some great shows have been pulled for profitable download.but look at it this way....weve been blessed to get all that weve gotten for free over the years..i repeat for FREE...shouldnt look a gift horse in the mouth so to speak.theres still a whole lot of garcia phil and friends and such to get that if you started downloadin now you prolly couldnt burn it all off your computer in a year.look at the allmans theyve been allowin tradin for herds and pulled ALL there stuff off downloadin sites a few years back.enjoy what we still have here.
ps thanks to the LMA people for there hard work and deadication to keepin this site goin....

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Poster: lauraj400 Date: Mar 4, 2005 1:54am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Will the Dead shows be free on the new site and will they work with windows?

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Poster: Eric Geffner Date: Mar 31, 2005 11:08am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

free, hahahaha ya, right.... now that jer is gone the rats will play and we will be asked to pay

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Mar 4, 2005 2:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

The latest info about downloads from the Grateful Dead is here: http://dead.net/

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Poster: dr. flashback Date: Mar 5, 2005 3:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Okay, here is all the Dead have posted about Itunes and downloads on their site -
posted: 3/01/05
Download Grateful Dead Music

Live Grateful Dead archival recordings -- the two-track "Dick's Picks" series and the multi-track "Vault" series -- are now available for direct downloading through iTunes or through Dead.net's own GDStore.com.

I would like to know why so many shows have been removed from LAMA at once, when none of them is a vault release or a Dick's Picks. True, SOME of the songs on "Steppin Out Europe 72" are from the England shows - but none of the Paris shows have been released in any form. Neither have any of the 1969 run - 2/27,2/28,3/1, or 3/2 - been released, except that the 2/27 Dark Star is of course on Live Dead. But that was released in 1969, and people have traded the 2/27 show for decades.
I also seriously doubt that the "Dead Corporation"
is going to release ALL 4 of these 1969 shows at once. Furthermore, since they have recently released "Steppin Out" and "Rockin at the Rhine" from 1972, I doubt they are going to release more Europe 72 anytime soon. Again, it does not make sense why LAMA has chosen to remove so many shows all at once. If the "Dead Corporation" has suddenly changed their long standing policy on trading free non-released shows - it's new to me, and if LAMA has some information on this from the Dead then please either post it or offer us some explanation of why these shows are now off limits. As it stands - things are very unclear and ambiguous.
Let's take 5/26/72 as an example. This contains the great Truckin>Morning Dew that was released on Europe 72, but the rest of the show is NOT released, and has been traded freely for years, and still today is available on many FTP sites - AS IT SHOULD BE according to the Dead's own stated policy.
In my opinion, and I think I speak for most reasonable Deadheads here, we have for years maintained a healthy balance between downloading/trading free shows, yet still buying what we can afford as DP's or Vault releases, because we want to support the band and be fair.
Shows that are not released AS A WHOLE, or AUDIENCE versions of released shows, should be available for trading - as has been stated here by many reviewers recently. The last time I checked - the missing songs from DP #1 12/19/73 were still available here so folks who own that release could complete the whole show. This is a reasonable and kind policy - and it should continue.
What disturbs me - and I'm not necessarily blaming the band members themselves - is that some at Dead Inc. are now turning their backs on the Dead fans who traded free shows for decades and yet still bought all those $50 tickets to support the band. It disturbs me to see the "suits" start to try and grab every last dime out of shows that are 20 and 30 years old. Do you know any rich Deadheads? I don't either - and yet Dead.net is now advertising ALL of the Dick's Picks for over $700. Good luck! What's next - digitally remastering all the DP's so we'll have to buy them all AGAIN? Haven't all of us supported the Dead enough? We've made them all millionaires many times over. And we'll buy the new GD movie DVD, yes, and we'll buy the new Dick's Picks when they come out. But let us have our old, hissy, cuts-in-songs bootlegs free, that's all we ask. This whole Itunes thing stinks of greed and I'm against it. The way I see it - it's no different than the scumbags who sell free Dead bootleg shows on Ebay.
I and many others here would appreciate a clear, consistent and unambiguous policy from LAMA on the availability of Dead shows in the future. Shows suddenly disappearing by the dozens without a stated reason is dishonest and not in keeping with the spirit of what all this is about.
Thank you,
Dr. Flashback

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Poster: worldbridger Date: Mar 13, 2005 7:06pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Dr Flashback wrote: 'I would like to know why so many shows have been removed from LAMA at once, when none of them is a vault release or a Dick's Picks. True, SOME of the songs on "Steppin Out Europe 72" are from the England shows - but none of the Paris shows have been released in any form' You should check out the China-Rider from the Europe 72 release, Paris in the Spring!!!

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Poster: dead trail Date: Mar 5, 2005 5:32am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Amen, Brother ( I do know some rich deadheads, but they are a
small minority!)

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Mar 5, 2005 7:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Here is additional info apparently passed in email from the Dead to some fans very recently. I didn't receive a copy since I am not on their email list, but have seen fans posting it in various forums, around 3/1/05. (A link to a current news item containing the email is http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/powerpage.woa/wa/story?newsID=14263 but not sure how long that will be current.)

2 NEW WAYS TO DOWNLOAD GRATEFUL DEAD MUSIC
Hey now.

It's time for our next step into the digital domain: Beginning March 1st, all the live Grateful Dead archival recordings -- the two-track "Dick's Picks" series and the multi-track "Vault" series -- will be available for direct downloading through iTunes Music Store and GDStore.com. Studio albums have been available at ITunes for some time.

In the near future, certain new, previously unreleased shows will be digitally available exclusively through the iTunes Music Store and GDStore.com.

You can access these downloads either through iTunes or through Dead.net's own GDStore.com Apple will be offering complete shows and single songs up to 10 minutes long in their AAC format. At GDStore.com, you can choose among four different file formats (128, 256, Windows Media, Lossless) for complete shows, but single songs won't be available.

We've been on the cutting edge of music distribution for more than 30 years, and the evolution to digital sharing is not surprising. Dead Heads have always honored ethical standards in their sharing, and we think this offering represents a great combination -- it's easy to use and it's legal.

Enjoy!
Your friends at Grateful Dead Productions


I notice it mentions additional "near future" material beyond the current DP and Vault items.

Although I would not even want to listen to all 2000+ shows the Dead ever performed, I'd love a chance to get a selection of my personal faves right from the Vault, such as the "Live Dead run."

BTW regarding the "regular" LMA at least, I do know that it is about archiving recordings to the extent that we are granted that privilege by the artists. See the FAQs here, and read many, many posts here on this forum over the years, where we emphasize that spirit of respect for the artists' wishes. I would be surprised if the Dead were treated differently in that regard, special collection or not.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-05 15:11:58

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Poster: dr. flashback Date: Mar 5, 2005 10:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Dear Diane,
thank you for your response. I have been to Dead.net and checked out the download situation. And apparantly the breaking news from David Gans is that the 4 night run at the Fillmore in 1969 IS about to be released as a box set. So that explains why LAMA took that off.
Please do not take this personally, as I know you don't run LAMA by yourself. But I'm still waiting for an answer from someone as to why many other shows - let's use 5/10/72 as an example - are now gone. The only explanation is that someone at LAMA has an inside line to Dead Inc., and is getting advance notice of shows that WILL BE released for download soon. Can anyone give me a better explanation?
What would be awfully polite of you, is that instead of COMPLETELY removing the shows - like 4/14/72 - and all the reviews that folks have been nice enough to write for others information, why don't you leave the show listing along with a note -
"This show has been removed because it is soon to be available for download" - just like you have been doing with the Dick's Picks? Simple enough?

Let me also say, my main argument is NOT with you kind folks at LAMA, who have put in many hours of hard work so that all of us could share this great music for free. But I knew it was too good to last and I was right.
Obviously, Dead Inc. has been VERY threatened by what is going on at LAMA for free, and has quickly moved to cash in on your idea, even going so far as to set up audio streaming of shows - just like LAMA. It's soooooo transparent it's disgusting.
And apparantly they feel that releasing 2-3 Dick's Picks a year plus other Vault shows just doesn't make them rich enough, fast enough.

So let me now alert all Deadheads with this warning - if you like getting these free shows - get them now, fast! I'm convinced Dead Inc. will not stop until they've snatched away as many great 1973, 1974, etc. shows from LAMA as they can make you pay for. I predict that by the end of 2005, LAMA will only have a few shows from each year left - ones that no one wants anyway. Anybody wanna bet me?
Go check out the DL prices at GDstore.com - I dare you. They want the same money for FLAC versions as they charge through the mail order. BUT - you have to DL and print the booklet yourself. Hope you've got a nice printer or it'll look like sh**. And what if something screws up while you're downloading? A thunderstorm, your hard drive crashes, or some songs have errors that don't pass MD5 file checks. That never happens of course does it? Right! They will not give you your money back!!
For me, I am boycotting this shameless corporate rip-off. I was happy to buy the DPicks thru the mail, now they want the same money for no packaging plus I have to supply the blank CD's!
I will continue to copy and share ALL my Dead shows, including Dick's Picks, both B&P thru the mail and with my local friends. As a matter of fact, I am so pissed off they have taken away our bootleg for 4/14/72, one of the great 72 shows, that anybody that wants a copy, get in touch with me and I'll send you a seed SHN copy personally. F** 'em, so sue me.
All this is a larger context is part of the techno war between the RIAA and other corporate Republicans - and all those of us who believe that music should be shared on the internet for free. And we will win in the end. It's a losing battle and they know it, which is why they're grabbing all the $$$$$ they can now. Look at what's happening with DVD's and movie downloads. They can't stop it, the hackers and pirates break every code as fast as they create them.
As for all you goody goody types who say "oh, stealing music is wrong, it takes away money from these multi-millionaire artists". Let me ask you - did you ever tape an album for a friend back in the 70's? Or copy a tape or CD from your local library? You're GUILTY!! So let's all grow up. We all buy what we can, even at inflated ridiculous $17.99 CD prices. And we all copy some, and it all balances out in the end.
Victory to the pirates, aaarrrgg mateys!!
Dr. Flashback

[slight language edit- mod.]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-05 18:43:47

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Poster: pathfinder Date: Mar 21, 2005 7:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Hey Doc. id love a copy of that 72' show, i have no shows from 72 and where better to start then the one that your so pissed about being gone,lol drop an email if you can help out here, thanks man, eddiers2003@yahoo.com

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Poster: Sangamon Taylor Date: Mar 5, 2005 10:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

"For me, I am boycotting this shameless corporate rip-off."

"Go check out the DL prices at GDstore.com - I dare you."

"F** 'em, so sue me."

"All this is a larger context is part of the techno war between the RIAA and other corporate Republicans - and all those of us who believe that music should be shared on the internet for free."

I don't understand? These guys are musicians, some of them still make their living off of the music they played in the past, and you are bitching about only having 2700 shows to choose from instead of 2800??? C'mon...

It's their call and always will be. They should not feel like they have to give it all away for free just cause you don't want to be separated from your dollar bills. I don't think they are being selfish, I think you are. You want Paris 72, fork over 20 bucks and support the musicians. There's 98 other '72 recordings still in the LMA if your money means that much to you.

I'm annoyed that folks are this worked up over this. There is 30 years worth of recordings here. 30 f**ng years!!! Stop and think about that, 30 years of 1 band documented in 1 place. Is it complete? No, but even having 95% of it in 1 place is incredible. If they want to preserve less than 1% of the recordings here so they can continue to make a living, we should still thank them for allowing something to be here. Go back and remember how you got that missing 1% 2 years ago. I'll give you a hint - it wasn't an instant download next to 2700 other recordings...

I disagree with your pessimistic overly angry assumption that all the shows are going to be gone. They have been at the forefront of a liberal policy in regards to making sure fans have access to the music. I have perfect faith that they will continue to treat us with respect forever.

Show some respect and show some gratitude, or find your way out the door.





This post was modified by Sangamon Taylor on 2005-03-05 17:53:50

[slight language edit- mod.]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-05 18:48:01

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Poster: Ole Uncle John Date: Mar 5, 2005 11:33am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Sorry to see that your annoyed that we're annoyed. I don't mean to be insulting and I have no idea whether you are familiar with the history of the band in question, but this new policy is a major sea change of 40 years of understood policy.ie: "When we are done with the music you can have it". Thru out their entire history the Grateful Dead allowed taping and trading of shows. First unofficially than finally as written official policy. Now this is beginning to be taken away from us. For example if Dan Healy , the bands late sound guy, let some folks plug into the soundboard 20 years ago knowing that they were going to make tapes for friends and others and now we are told to stop this free distribution it IS a BIG DEAL. The taping was always a win-win situation as the band never would have become what they were without the free advertising (have you ever listened to their early albums?) and we got something to take with us from the shows we paid to see. It’s even harder to take when it happens after those who were the greatest proponents of free taping are dead and gone.
LAMA is easily the greatest resource for live music on the web (In fact I think it is why Al Gore invented it) and I'm not meaning at all to criticize LAMA or the administrators . However if they have more information than us regarding shows being pulled I hope they'll share it.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Mar 5, 2005 9:15pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Taping and trading of Dead tapes is still allowed AFAIK. There is no sea change on that. It would be *much* bigger news if there were a change in that regard, heh.

Likewise, I'd be surprised if there were any sea change re LMA. Speaking now of the "regular" LMA collection, plenty of other bands have communicated policies specific to having music (or not having music) in the LMA, apart from general fan taping and trading. Some say NO to LMA even if fan-fan trading and downloading is still OK as always (eg, MMW). Some update their LMA-specific notes over time (eg, Kimock, a few times now).

Should we be surprised if there were a similar situation with the Dead? The tides would be flowing normally for here.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-06 05:15:01

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Poster: dead trail Date: Mar 5, 2005 10:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I'd say the answer lies some where in between. For those without the bucks to pay for I-tunes /GD store downloads, there will still be archive choises available (and let's be grateful because alot of artists have outright said no entirely to this idea). You'll also be able to burn copies of friends downloads. In a perfect world there would be songs to fill the air, all for free! It's not a perfect world. There were long rumors of divisions among the band members on the whole digitizing, download phenomenom. It's not surprising that there's divisions among the faithful. Bottom line is the special flame handed to us in this music. Let's remain grateful and make our way through the darkness with this little bit of light. Just some thoughts, and I love hearing others!

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Poster: Exploding Plastic Inevitable Date: Mar 21, 2005 5:49am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

This is a response to Dr. Flashback more so than a response to the forum. I am surprised to hear what is happening but its also kind of to be expected. I'm glad there's an explanation for the missing shows nevertheless. The explanation isn't really one i'd like to hear but like you said this is all too good to be true. i came across this forum while looking for a copy of 4/14/72 somewhere on the web other than the archive and it doesn't exist as i have been informed. That is one of the few 72' shows i haven't downloaded and have been meaning to. Now it seems i can't. i hate to hold you (Dr. Flashback) to your word but i'd very much like a copy of that show. If you want to work out a trade or something you could email me at LBSkater247@hotmail.com.
Peace,
Luke

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Mar 5, 2005 8:40am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

apparantly the breaking news from David Gans is that the 4 night run at the Fillmore in 1969 IS about to be released as a box set.

You probably didn't see David's real post yet, so in quashing that rumor (as Wharfrat73 did just a little while ago on this thread), I'll point to http://hotline.deadnetcentral.com/WebX?50@136.N6t2a49lB3q.0@.4a855066, specifically:

"David Gans - 01:41pm Mar 5, 2005 PDT (#37 of 38)

I have no idea who posted that message nor where, but it did not come from me."

"Apparently," but not necessarily "obviously," that is the real David Gans talking there, not DavidGans. ;)

Doesn't mean there won't be some other future news- it's just not obvious yet.

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Poster: NJoy Date: Nov 3, 2005 10:23am
Forum: etree Subject: March 30, 1990...Where is it?

Where did it go?! I never DL'ed the SHns and, alas, a favorite Spring 1990 show is lost in the digital ether. Any news folks?

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Poster: rollandfin Date: Jun 20, 2006 7:05pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I think we all tend to lose our heads at times, maybe because we are at tug of war with morals.
It is the GD organization's prevailing option to set and change policy on exchange of music This can not really be disputed in.
The recordings however are a resource, & held in context of 2006, exist as the most valuable resource to both GD and us the fans. May 3rd 1972 in paris has come and gone and will never re-live. The ability of the band to perform as they did, (as good or as bad), at the Olympia Theatre has faded, and is now all but gone. But the recording has forever captured this moment in the timeline. It is from these performances that Grateful Deads content was created, and which many fans crave.
Commercial releases such as Rockin'The Rhine are great, becuase entire performances can be heard, and money is raised. LAMA Downloads such as May 26th 1973 at Kezar Stadium are equally as special, as they contain unique moments of musical bliss, otherwise lost to time. However May 3rd 1972 is not available for purchase, yet also not downloadable.
Try to imagine never hearing the aquistic sets of May 15th 1970 at the fillmore East, The Dark Star from The Capitol Theater on feb 18th 1971, The Scarlet>Fire form Barton Hall on May 8th 1977, or the Franklin's Tower From the Winterland Arena On June 9th later that year. Better yet, try to imagine never hearing them again. Is that a sense of loss, or an act of justice?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Jun 20, 2006 7:40pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: pointer to Grateful Dead forum

This thread is over a year old. Since that time some things at the site have changed. For instance you may enjoy this newer, more focused GD forum instead:
http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead#forum

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Poster: paint-picker Date: Mar 4, 2005 4:04pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Only playing Diana, just my sense of humour! I noticed on the GDstore .com site that all the oficial releases are now available for download with covers booklets etc. You can get a download direct from the store as well as i-tunes thank goodness.

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Poster: Eric Geffner Date: Mar 31, 2005 9:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

7-16-66
is also gone, I am not sure how long it has been MIA but it is now gone....
could some kind soul pleaassesseeee email me a list of what is gone from the list ???????
drgeff@yahoo.com
completists rule !!!!

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Poster: hazbeen Date: Mar 4, 2005 4:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

seneca college '77 is gone too!! anyone know where it can be found?

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Poster: Jim F Date: Mar 4, 2005 7:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Part of Seneca 11-2-77 was released on the latest dix pix, along with 11/5/77

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Poster: hazbeen Date: Mar 7, 2005 2:23am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

thank you. i'll check it out. (it's hard to think about buying a dick's picks now at $26 a whack when so many other fine shows are online for free!!)